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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.23 17:16:00 -
[1]
Login Trap; When a large number of hostiles log on simultaneously and imedately fly into combat with a pre-scouted unequal (weaker) enemy, giving them no time to react.
Apparantly this isnt an exploit. Certain corps ADMIT using it on a regular basis. There is no countermeasure.
CCP PLEASE EXPLAIN your policy on this; It seems clear it is using an out of game mechanic (not appearing on local while offline) to gain an ingame advantage (surprising a force with greater numbers with no counters possible)
Now This is a tactic used by many groups, but is trademarked by RAT. corp.
(see here for admission link)
They have often used it, in particular one incident comes to mind when they logged on a fleet which had been (before logoff) hugging a gate, just as a freighter enterred warp to that gate with its escort fleet; end result dead freighter.
How can this behaviour be allowed? What counter is there?? Once the freighter pilot saw local fill up, what could he have done (he was already in warp)??
MAKE IT AN EXPLOIT.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.23 20:23:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Xelios
Quote:
It stopped being an exploit when you no longer logged in exactly where you logged off.
But now that we have bigger and more cumbersome ships maybe it should be looked at again. Anything dreadnaut and above has little practical chance to escape one of these log on tactics, and really no way of forseeing a good one.
If they haven't got an escort they kinda deserve to die anyway, no?
It isn't like capital ships are a quick kill.
Avon, in the example I quoted the Freighter was escorted by 10 Battlships and multiple smaller craft. The logging on force was around 20 BSs. For small scale issues of course you are right but when its whole corps / alliances what you are sayinh is WRONG. Even in LD's example in the linked thread they had a sizeable force, but when 30 log in at once "sizeable" just wont hack it.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.23 21:36:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Mr Bright
Why not add cloak into the picture?
So if you log on in space, you have to wait 2 mins while the ship "wakes up" of "hybernation" or whatever RP reason you want to add. During that time its cloaked and on the randomly created safespot. Afaik this would allow everyone in local 2+ mins of warning time, and at the same time protect the player logging on from probes etc.
Of course this suggestion can be tweaked etc, but its a an idea.
and yes, this is my main - so dont ask for anotehr face behind the messege this is all I got 
I quite like this idea. At the end of 2mins it warps back in as normal.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.23 21:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Scalor Valentis
Im not saying that "login traps" are fine (there is no login traps acording CCP). But neither is ALL SEING, ALL KNOWING, ALL MIGHTY LOCAL CHAT that pretty much is idiot proof tool to tell even retards that there is hostiles in system.
how does that help you if you are in warp in a frieghter going 0.1au/sec towards the gate where theyve all just logged on
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 00:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
The onlyuse of logontraps I would class as exploit even now is when you use it in an system of extreme size.
Example: log off your gang on top of a gate, use an alt at the incoming gate to select the target, then log on your gang when the target enters warp.
As long as your targets warp is above 100au and his ship is slow, you can get to that gate before he does, without him having any option to stop his ship. He's already in warp and there is nothing he can do expect log off.
Apart form that, there's always the 20-30 seconds of warning you should have when your enemies log in and you see local go up. 20-30 seconds is enough time to enter warp no matter what ship you use. So unless you warp right into theior arms there's littel reason to die.
And that is also the reason CCP gave us when they told us its allright ot use logintraps now.
Such as in the actual (petition failed) Freighter example I gave?
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 10:54:00 -
[6]
I guess at least we have a Dev on record saying RAT. are lame.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 10:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Turin
Edited by: Turin on 23/01/2006 17:56:05
Actually, i thought it WAS considerd an exploit. I have read that several times here on the forums. Report them. The names of the people, the system it took place in, and the time they logged in.
It stopped being an exploit when you no longer logged in exactly where you logged off.
Quote:
And people who do it are lame as hell.
Agreed.
Nuff said.
Right.. so you admit its lame, know it causes problems and is uncounterrable. And yet you offer no justifcation for it not being an exploit. WTF?
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 11:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Selena Sellion
Right.. so you admit its lame, know it causes problems and is uncounterrable. And yet you offer no justifcation for it not being an exploit. WTF?
So, by the same arguement insta-jumps should be banned (at least in empire space where they are definately uncounterable), yes?
I agree, let's do it.
Insta jumps arnt lame. Insta jumps arnt Out of Game. Insta jumps ARE counterable (just jump through with them and get them on the other side).
Insta jumps dont result in the victim dying. Insta jumps use a planned game mechanic the way it was intended to be use (albeit for a different reason).
Honestly, arguing with you is harder than (and strangely similar to) making a handicapped kid stop eating paste.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 12:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Originally by: GigaIndy
Erm, we're trying to change this so griefers and gankers cant Grief and gank.K thx.
Wait, so you are trying to eliminate a compelte set of set of tactics just because you don't use or enjoy them? Let's play fair then.
OMFG NERF RAVEN!
OMFG NERF WCS!
OMFG NERF MWD DEADSPACE!
OMFG NERF MINING!!!!11
OMG NERF DUPING!!
Oh no wait its a legitimate tactic!! Just cos YOU dont use it to get an advantage!
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 22:26:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rumata
what is definition of "login trap" ?
2 situation :
1)near station gang 5 BSs and 15Bs logged off - on login screens
on the start of battle(5on5) all make login and warp into battle
2)Situation of RAT.
1 RAT. dread start battle on moon 3-1. second dread on safespot aligned to planet 3. BS support logged off in system 1j from battle. we make logon regroup on ss, make gang, and going to help to our dreads
is these cases are same login trap ?
Wow that sounds EXACTLY like what you did to SUPRMS freighter. Or not.
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Selena Sellion
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Posted - 2006.01.24 22:29:00 -
[11]
All CCP has to do is
Redesignate Logon traps as an exploit BUT not one which allows the victim to be reimbursed .
That wont up the petition level tooo drastically, but will at least mean the fencesitters will stop doing it.
As with all similar things, the ones that keep doing it will be demolished for their actions.
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